July 23, 2010

1st game of 8th and High Elves for first 8th Tournament

Played my first game of 8th Edition last night, which we complicated further by making it a 2v2 battle High Elves vs. Dwarfs each player taking 1600pts. I decided to leave magic at home to concentrate on learning the movement and combat rules and went with.

Prince (w. Swordmasters)
w. GW, Armour of Silvered Steel, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon
BSB (w. Spears)
w. GW, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix

So thats two characters both hitting on S6 with re-rolls, and both with 2+ AS and 5+ WS. Prince and his unit also gained 6+WS vs. Warmachines.

Spears x40
w. Full Command, Banner of Swiftness (+1 movement)
Phoenix Guard x18
w. Full Command, Razor Standard (Armour Piercing)
Swordmasters x17
w. Full Command, Standard of Balance (ITP)

TOTAL 1,600pts

Game went pretty fast once we got into it. Slowest part was setting up terrain as we decided to use the full random roll for pieces process rather than just stick bits out. Consequently we ended up with 3 walls, a steaming marsh, a bane stone, a 2-storey building and a freaky (??right word) forest that gave everyone poison attacks.

Basically the Dwarfs chewed us up mostly as my partners 2 Dragon Prince units got torn apart by shooting especially the Grudgethrower which is just deadly now, and his characters died along with them. This basically left the battle up to me and it was fun!!!!!!!

The Spears did OK attacking in 4 ranks with them being 10x4 with re-rolls to hit. Problem is needing 5's to wound Dwarfs made it hard to get anything, although against Hammerers who were on a 5+AS wounds tended to kill, and also because half the unit got killed by missile fire before close combat. Other than that they were fun.

Phoenix Guard were well as PG always are - going to buy another 10 of these guys so I can take a larger unit of 25-30 from now on. I think thats about the right size for units now. Any larger and they get unweidly. Hordes seem nice but its hard to move and keep the 1" separation plus unless everyone else takes Hordes only 28/40 models are attacking vs. the standard 5 wide unit.

Best unit by far though SWORDMASTERS!!!!!!!

Absolutely awesome. Deployed them in 2 ranks they charged a unit of 30 Longbeards. 1st round of combat I had 20 attacks going in from them all with re-rolls (5 guys in front rank w. 2 attacks each, and Champion w. 3 + 7 guys in back with 1 attack each) plus the Prince with 4 attacks as well. 24 attacks killed 15 Longbeards, or half the unit. Took only 2 more rounds of combat (as my opponent kept making is 6+ parry saves) to wipe out the entire unit. Giving them Standard of Balance was - as always - the only way to use large units of these guys. That and the Ironcurse Icon on them (FOR ONLY 5 pts) stopped the Grudgethrower from killing them, and a flank shot from a Bolt-Thrower before it got through even one model.

8th Edition High Elves next week

Matching up against Caleb's Warriors of Chaos at 2400pts - and this time I will be using magic to practice it. Aiming at this stage for Lore of Shadow which from talk on Ulthuan and elsewhere seems to favour HE more. Match will also be good practice for next two tournaments both 8th Edition - Call to Arms in 3 weeks time @ 2,250pts and Skitterleap in October @ 2400pts - will be taking High Elves to both.

So what do I take? You cant put everything in and so at least one Elite unit will have to stay at home. Tossed a coin and it will be the White Lions even if they are the best looking of my High Elf units. The problem is the mandatory minimum core which stops you from running the basic 220pts of HE Archers that most guys take.

8th Edition HE @ 2,250pts (possibly for my 1st 8th Ed tournament)

Archmage Level 4 (w. Phoenix Guard)
w. Silver Wand, Talisman of Endurance

Silver Wand gains an extra spell, Talisman gives 5+WS. 25% restriction means I cant take Folraiths or other items as I wanted the Prince to be included as well. Book of Hoeth seems to be a favourite of many people but I'm not to sure about it. Prefer some protection. Big change in 8th is that you only get 1 Dispel Scroll per army - just one - vs. Dwarfs who get 3 because they use Runes. High Elves still get +1 to dispel though.

Prince (w. Spears)
w. GW, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, Radiant Gem of Hoeth

2+ AS, 5+ WS are reasonable if not spectacular. Main purpose of this guy is to give me a 2nd caster who also doubles as a combat character. Only Lvl 1 but he can Channel extra dice which is all I need him for. Also gives you L10 for army.

BSB (w. Dragon Princes)
w. Halberd, Barded Steed, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Protection

Not quite the standard set up but honestly if you fail a 1+ rerollable AS then a 5 vs. 6+ WS isnt going to make much difference. After a good idea from Caleb plan for this guy is to sit with the Dragon Princes behind the army buffing with his re-rolls.

Spears x35
w. Full Command, Banner of Arcane Protection

Thought about 2 units of 20 and only 1 of Archers but 35 gives me 7 ranks of 5 or 5 of 7. Extra ranks mean greater chance of Stubborn which is huge for HE. 7 x 5 ranks also maximises their attack value vs. 5 wide standard infantry blocks. Banner of Arcane Protection gives MR2 or 5+ WS vs. magic making up for lack of Dispel Scrolls.

Archers x10
w. Musician
Archers x10
w. Musician

Big blocks of Archers seem a good idea but 2 units offer more flexibility and you will still need shooting to take care of chaff (horde) units like Skaven Slaves.

Phoenix Guard x19
w. Full Command, Razor Standard

Still my favourite unit - only 19 due to points and as I havent painted the 20th model I own yet. Razor Standard gives Armour Piercing attacks which is golden for these guys. War Banner a consideration but they will stick anyway as WS will help them.

Swordmasters x18
w. Full Command, Ironcurse Icon, Standard of Balance

The all or nothing unit. Yes they only have a 5+AS vs. anything and yes shooting will absolutely destroy them. But standard makes them ITP so they will not panic and you better kill all of them with shooting because if I get into combat they will kill you - all of you.

Dragon Princes x5
w. Musician

Basically there to bunker the BSB and to cater for skirmishers and flyers etc. Also necessary as I only have 2 painted non-mage characters one a mounted BSB the other a GW carrying guy on foot.


Well because Budgies are always useful and it was fun having use Stomp attacks on Warmachine crews last night.

TOTAL 2,245pts (Core 26.5%, Special 38.8%, Rare 2.2%, Characters 32.5%)

8th Edition HE @ 2,400pts (possibly for my 2nd 8th Ed tournament)

So at 2400pts what do I do? You are only adding 150pts which isnt alot. The big change now is the increase in pts available to each choice - Lords for e.g. go from 562.5 to 600pts. This gives you so slightly better options.

For HE though everything costs - ALOT - the question is what will my opponents bring at that points level? 150pts means a lot of extra chaff for armies like Goblins and Skaven, and even VC if people really like Zombies. It may also mean more magic.

So planning wise I start with 2,250 list above and make the following changes

Archmage now has - Silver Wand and Folraiths Robe. Losing 5+ WS in favour of immunity to all non-magical attacks.

Swordmasters get 2 more bodies to total of 20

Spears - get split into 2 units of 20 one with Lichebone Pennant for MR1

Army gets one more Eagle

This is what Ill use next week


Trollhoer said...

I faced a High Elf list yesterday with a lvl 4, lore of shadows, Book of Hoeth, and it was absolutely brutal. IF each time he cast pit of shades, which took out about 800 points (of 2500) in the first two turns. But even more so the spell that lowers the toughness is a god send for HE. Not only do you (almost always) hit on 3's, with re-roll, but now you're wounding on 3's or 2's as well? Absolutely brutal, lore of Shadows is a must in my opinion. Problem with Book of Hoeth is, as you say, lack of protection. I'll definitely bring a Feedback Scroll for every battle from here on, since the tactics against HE's has to be to take out the wizard fast.

I like your list, although as you say artillery fire will become a problem (but that's almost always the case for HE, so). Also, you might struggle against chariots and other things with impact hits, as you'll only have 20 archers to take them out, which is hardly enough. Bolt Throwers are good for this, but that would mean giving up a block (or the Dragon Princes).

Also, you might struggle against monsters, especially since you've got nothing that deals fire damage. I don't have the HE book handy, but perhaps adding a Banner of Eternal Flame somewhere? Remember, as long as you wound them once with flaming attacks, regen won't work for the rest of the turn.

That's all I had :). As always, it's a pleasure reading your thoughts on army lists and I look forward to hearing how the battles went.

John said...

Thanks for the feedback mate always appreciated - Ive been tinkering with the list all day and think I will go with the book of Hoeth. RBT I will be leaving out from now on as they die too easily only having 2 wounds.

Book of Asur is another option means HE get +2 to dispel - and a Lvl 4 is getting +5 to cast every spell. No IF but still very good.

Darth Weasel said...

just to play the opposite advocate...if you leave RBT at home, how do you replace the potential dragon/giant/big tough target damage with shooting? I know things wound on 6s, but 48" range w/no armor save is pretty stellar as well